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Generally speaking I am in agreement with Susan on most issues here. We'll address the LIS/InfoSci split at another time and venue. Most of the reasoning here can be summed up in a phrase used by a former colleague of mine: "The LIS schools are in charge of education. Practice (broadly defined) is in charge of training." That's not exact, but you get the idea. No library director should expect a newly minted librarian to know all the ins and outs of practice at a particular institution. When I started as a librarian back in the dark ages somebody on staff was intensely annoyed that I did not know what a "P slip" was. In the Air Force they were known as "snowflakes," a term totally unknown to the person complaining about my lack of knowledge. Charley Seavey Ranganathan said it all! Quoting Sue Myburgh <[log in to unmask]>: > Dear all > I agree with Mr Sloan: this is a perennial topic of debate. And it > is ultimately completely irrelevant. If there isn't a chasm between > LIS education and practice, there jolly well should be. It is the > task of educators (and I refer here to academics or faculty whose > goal is to 'educate' - please look up this word if you do not know > what is means) to introduce neophyte information professionals to the > DISCIPLINE of 'LIS' (or whatever else you want to call it. I believe > the split between 'Librarianship' and 'Information Science' > constitutes another hoary debate, largely promulgated by our US > cousins, and which should be knocked on the head or shot at dawn, > whichever is quicker). > In such a program, the learners can learn the history and development > of how information is created and communicated, and with what effect, > which will take in the development of language as a representative > system, the development of writing, of printing and the consequent > development of libraries. It will deal with the necessity of > describing and physically (even if digital) organising documents or > information artefacts; the principles of categorisation and > classification. It will examine how people look for information, and > what they do on the rare occasions that they actually come to a > 'library' to find it. It will furthermore consider the processes and > purposes of reading. It will be based on the premise that > information is alchemic, and transformative, and this provides our > professional raison d'etre - that being able to understand > information and make use of it might help people live their lives on > this earth. > > The details of HOW these places of physical storage and access work, > what should be stocked in them, who should be allowed to access them, > and when, what should be avoided or discarded, what the visitors to > such information stores should know and what we should know to help > them, how to look after the information artefacts and describe them > and store them for specific purposes: ALL OF THESE TECHNIQUES should > be taught by the employer concerned. There are too many tasks in > every library for ANY LIS program to make even the slightest attempt > to train their learners in them - and this is NOT important either, > as these techniques change not only from institution to instutituion, > but over time as well. > > Employers should get over this - unless they want clerks and > administrators, and not professionals who serve a social purpose and > assume (quite serious) social responsibilties (which can even involve > life and death). It is quite ridiculous for university-based > educational programs to attempt to focus on work-related > 'competencies', which they cannot do very well anyway without being > in a real-life setting. This is something that employers must assume > - as all for-profit businesses assume as well (just look at how new > accountants, doctors, lawyers, architects, nurses and so forth are > treated and trained in the first year or two on the job, after > university. > But this brings me to a wider discussion about how universities > should stop thinking they are money-making training enterprises, and > should rather be phrontisteries that encourage creativity and > innovation in society. So I'll stop here. > Love to all for a Happy New Year from a VERY HOT (43 celsius - over > 100 fahrenheit?) Adelaide. > Susan > > Dr S Myburgh > School of Communication, Languages and International Studies > University of South Australia > Adelaide > > > ________________________________ > From: Open Lib/Info Sci Education Forum [[log in to unmask]] On > Behalf Of Muriel Wells [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Saturday, 9 January 2010 11:15 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: 2010 Forum on Library Education > > Won't our work address the issue Mr. SLoan is talking about here? > > > > ________________________________ > From: B.G. Sloan <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 3:10:37 PM > Subject: Re: 2010 Forum on Library Education > > > This announcement asks: "Is there a chasm between LIS education and > professional practice?" > > As Yogi Berra once said, "It's like deja-vu, all over again." Isn't > this question asked just about every year? And don't we wind up with > one group saying "Yes, there is a chasm", and another group saying > "No, there isn't a chasm"? Then there's some heated debate, and maybe > a report. Then people get tired of talking about the question and it > gets put on a back burner until the next round. > > It sure would be nice to put this question to rest once and for all > by actually answering it. I remember John Unsworth's suggestion last > summer in the iSchool/iCaucus response to the ALA Library Education > Task Force report: > > "As deans of the iSchools, we suggest that the most efficient means > of achieving the outcomes that you desire would be to conduct > empirical research leading to a genuine understanding of the needs of > the profession and to consider how those needs are, or are not, being > met by programs such as ours. We envision this work being conducted > in an atmosphere of mutual respect between those who teach and those > who practice, and would willingly engage the expertise and resources > of the iSchools in the achievement of such an outcome." > > To the best of my knowedge, no one (on either "side") ever took John > up on his suggestion. > I, for one, am really tired of the "chasm" debate. It always seems to > end with both sides each convincing themselves that their position is > correct. > > Bernie Sloan > > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Patricia Antrim <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > From: Patricia Antrim <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: 2010 Forum on Library Education > To: [log in to unmask] > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 2:55 PM > > The following announcement is sent on behalf of the ALA Committee on > Education. > > 2010 Forum on Library Education > > The American Library Association (ALA) Committee on Education and the > Association for Library and Information Science Education (ALISE) will > present a forum on Library Education. The forum will be hosted by ALISE > and held during the ALA Midwinter Meeting in Boston, (MA) at the Boston > Park Plaza Hotel & Towers, 3:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. on Friday, Jan. 15, > 2010. > This year's theme will be: "Learning Outcomes: Methodologies for > Connecting Communities" > > Representatives from Library & Information Studies (LIS) education and > ALA divisions will discuss the following issues of learning outcomes in > LIS education and how the professional community views LIS graduates: > What is a Learning Outcome? How might the new competences impact LIS > education? What relationship do the new competences have to established > division competences? Is there a chasm between LIS education and > professional practice? > The forums on library education are annual events and are venues for an > open exchange of ideas and ongoing dialogue between LIS educators and > library practitioners on current topics related to library education > matters. > Speakers: Rachel A. Applegate, Indiana University - Indianapolis; Lynn > S. Connaway, OCLC; Sara Kelly Johns, Lake Placid Middle/High School > (NY); Dan O'Connor, Rutgers University and Scott Walter, University of > Illinois - Urbana. > For updates and additional information about the Forum, please visit the > website: > http://www.ala.org/ala/aboutala/offices/hrdr/abouthrdr/hrdrliaisoncomm/c > ommitteeoned/libraryeducationforum.cfm > > Lorelle Swader > > > > **Please include the history of email correspondence in your reply** > > Dr. Patricia Antrim > Chair, Educational Leadership & Human Development > Lovinger 4102 > University of Central Missouri > Warrensburg, MO 64093 > Phone: 660-543-8633 > Fax: 660-543-4164